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Culkasi
Hors Categorie
United Kingdom
4080 Posts |
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kxtr
National Champion
Germany
932 Posts |
 Posted - 17/04/2009 : 18:32:01
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I'm curious how that will affect the existence of Rock Racing.
Regarding Hamilton - how dumb is the guy?
argh |
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CrossRacer
National Champion
USA
322 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2009 : 18:38:19
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There were some rumors going around in the U.S. back in March about Hamilton testing positive. I had forgotten about it recently since I hadn't heard anything in the last two weeks until it was announced today.
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Fausto
Elite Rider
Denmark
216 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2009 : 21:37:45
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DHEA to avoid depression??
Hm, am I the only one who thinks that doesn't really add up?
Anyway, what a sad way to end his career - but in a sense, it was already over. |
Edited by - Fausto on 17/04/2009 21:38:51 |
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KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2009 : 21:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew_M
Tyler Hamilton positive again :(
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr17news3
I admit he this time came up with a better excuse, than the one with his "unborn twin". But common!!! Do he really think people will buy his story about using homeopatic product with DHEA against depression? The guy who was caught of using homologous blood doping in the Vuelta and Olympics in 2004. The guy who was clearly caught as a blood doping client of Dr.Fuentes in 2002-2004. The guy who never admitted anything. The guy who still claim to never have doped. Of course that guy suddenly suffers so hard from side effects from his antidepression medicine, so he in desperation use a homeopatic product with DHEA against his depression. How stupid do he think we are?
Another point I cant help to stress, is that I am going to wildly punch the next person, who claim that testosterone or DHEA doesnt improve your fysical performance! To be honest I am getting sick and tired of that argument! Yes, I know about the old incomplete study, where they analysed some unreal situations and concludeded that the substance didnt boost the performance big time. But we have to be both death, dumb, incompetent and blind, if we start to believe that athletes dont have benefit of using testosteron/DHEA. Why did Landis do it? Why did Sinkewitz do it? Why did all riders from 1980-2006 who have admitted their doping use, consume that product? Sure - they were all mistaken! DHEA/testosterone has no positive effect! 
My pulse is rising, and I actualy start to feel a bit angry about it! So I would like to use the opportunity to throw this DHEA talk into perspective, with a short recent news story. A few weeks ago AFLD published the results from an analysis of hair test from a large group of French athletes. Since the test havent yet been approved by WADA as a testing method, the athletes wont be prosecuted, but the results are by experts found completely reliable:
22 out of 133 athletes (16.5%) tested positive for DHEA/testosterone
Professional football: 7 out of 32 (21.8%)
Amateur riders: 3 out of 17 (17.6%)
Professional rugby: 5 out of 30 (16.7%)
Athletic disciplines: 3 out of 22 (13.6%)
Professional riders: 4 out of 37 (10.8%)
All in all 19 were positive for DHEA and 4 for testosteron, which in total corresponded to 22 athletes (because one of them used both). Finaly another 4 out of 133 athletes (3.0%) showed traces of neuroligical stimulants of the type amphetamine, MDMA and cocaine. And to complete the test there was also 2 out of 133 athletes (1.5%) testing positive for a mild stimulant, that however in some cases can be justified with a TUE.
www.afld.fr/docs/actu87_CPphaneres_AFLD.pdf
Please take notice, that this test was only performed on a group of French athletes, who are considered to be the most clean nation in Europe! We can only speculate about how the numbers will look like in USA, Italy and Spain! I wouldnt be surprised, if a similair test in spain would show that 50% of the athletes use DHEA. All this just to say, that DHEA is still widely used to enhance fysical performance!
¤ Winner of the Golden League Fantasy Game 2008 |
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CSC ATLANTA
Hors Categorie
USA
2185 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2009 : 03:40:20
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This is from cyclingnews;
"Rock Racing team director Rudy Pevenage was in disbelief when he heard the news of Tyler Hamilton's positive anti-doping control Friday. He believed the American was past his problems, but now thinks Hamilton needs to stay out of cycling."
Is Pevenage shooting for a gold medal in irony and hypocrisy. |
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bicicletta10
Stagiaire
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2009 : 17:07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew_M
Tyler Hamilton positive again :(
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr17news3
I admit he this time came up with a better excuse, than the one with his "unborn twin". But common!!! Do he really think people will buy his story about using homeopatic product with DHEA against depression? The guy who was caught of using homologous blood doping in the Vuelta and Olympics in 2004. The guy who was clearly caught as a blood doping client of Dr.Fuentes in 2002-2004. The guy who never admitted anything. The guy who still claim to never have doped. Of course that guy suddenly suffers so hard from side effects from his antidepression medicine, so he in desperation use a homeopatic product with DHEA against his depression. How stupid do he think we are?
Another point I cant help to stress, is that I am going to wildly punch the next person, who claim that testosterone or DHEA doesnt improve your fysical performance! To be honest I am getting sick and tired of that argument! Yes, I know about the old incomplete study, where they analysed some unreal situations and concludeded that the substance didnt boost the performance big time. But we have to be both death, dumb, incompetent and blind, if we start to believe that athletes dont have benefit of using testosteron/DHEA. Why did Landis do it? Why did Sinkewitz do it? Why did all riders from 1980-2006 who have admitted their doping use, consume that product? Sure - they were all mistaken! DHEA/testosterone has no positive effect!
My pulse is rising, and I actualy start to feel a bit angry about it! So I would like to use the opportunity to throw this DHEA talk into perspective, with a short recent news story. A few weeks ago AFLD published the results from an analysis of hair test from a large group of French athletes. Since the test havent yet been approved by WADA as a testing method, the athletes wont be prosecuted, but the results are by experts found completely reliable:
22 out of 133 athletes (16.5%) tested positive for DHEA/testosterone
Professional football: 7 out of 32 (21.8%)
Amateur riders: 3 out of 17 (17.6%)
Professional rugby: 5 out of 30 (16.7%)
Athletic disciplines: 3 out of 22 (13.6%)
Professional riders: 4 out of 37 (10.8%)
All in all 19 were positive for DHEA and 4 for testosteron, which in total corresponded to 22 athletes (because one of them used both). Finaly another 4 out of 133 athletes (3.0%) showed traces of neuroligical stimulants of the type amphetamine, MDMA and cocaine. And to complete the test there was also 2 out of 133 athletes (1.5%) testing positive for a mild stimulant, that however in some cases can be justified with a TUE.
www.afld.fr/docs/actu87_CPphaneres_AFLD.pdf
Please take notice, that this test was only performed on a group of French athletes, who are considered to be the most clean nation in Europe! We can only speculate about how the numbers will look like in USA, Italy and Spain! I wouldnt be surprised, if a similair test in spain would show that 50% of the athletes use DHEA. All this just to say, that DHEA is still widely used to enhance fysical performance!
¤ Winner of the Golden League Fantasy Game 2008
Please don't punch me  , but I am going to disagree with you on one point. (I do agree that the data is slim on the inefficacy of DHEA/testosterone)
But the fact that so many athletes use a substance is in no way evidence that the substance itself is effective!! Cyclists in general do not have any medical background and are a very superstitious bunch, receiving most of their medical information through a 'locker room' scenario of rumors (a broad statement, i know). So just because cyclists think it works doesn't mean that the substance is effective! Then there is the 'placebo effect' which is a well-documented phenomenon, ie patients in clinical studies taking a placebo can respond to physiologically neutral compounds. So if the cyclists think they will get a benefit from a compound, they may ride/recover better. So my suggestion is to inject the cyclists with saline, (or give them a neutral patch) and tell them its testosterone and see how they perform! .
But of course, the intent to dope is still there, so they are certainly still guilty of trying to improve their performance through banned substances!
Have an awesome weekend! |
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KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2009 : 18:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by bicicletta10
Please don't punch me , but I am going to disagree with you on one point.
(I do agree that the data is slim on the inefficacy of DHEA/testosterone)
But the fact that so many athletes use a substance is in no way evidence that the substance itself is effective!! Cyclists in general do not have any medical background and are a very superstitious bunch, receiving most of their medical information through a 'locker room' scenario of rumors (a broad statement, i know). So just because cyclists think it works doesn't mean that the substance is effective!
Dont be nervous. I am a friendly guy and wont punch you.
I just get frustrated when I hear riders like Landis and Hamilton claim, that there was no reason for them to take testosterone/DHEA, because the substance has been proofed to bring no big fysical benefit! To me that's a lame excuse or attempt to downplay their violation. As we all know, testosterone/DHEA has been banned by WADA as a doping substance, because it enhance your fysical performance! The biggest bennefit is, that it helps the muscles to recuperate faster, which is important for riders during stage races (or intensive days of training).
The fact that 22% of the professional football players in France are also using the product, shows that its not only used in Cycling!
The study about the power bennefit from testosterone, that first Landis and now a friend of Hamilton refers to, didnt test for all scenarios. You cant just test how many more Watts you can pedal 1 hour after taking the substance. The substance makes its magic, when you take it through a long time, since it help you to train harder and recuperate faster. As far as I recall, some experts has also explained, that when athletes increase their haemoglobin/EPO count, then the positive effect from testosterone also increases.
If we were speaking about a phenomena in Amateur sport, I would of course share your sceptisism, that the athletes could be doing a placebo or just be following a mad trend. But with all due to respect, we shouldnt underestimate the science and expertice existing in those doping networks being present in professional sports! In the first post of this topic, I explained how governments in Eastern Germany, West Germany, Finland, Russia and USA actualy supported doping networks and programs for their best athletes in the 80s. We also know about Dr.Conconi helping out with doping programs to Italian athletes in the 80s. Then Dr.Ferrari took over in the 90s. We have Dr.Santuccione in 2004, Dr.Fuentes in 2006, Dr.Zoubek in 2006, and this is only to mention the most prominent names in Cycling!
Honestly I dont see any reason to question the positive effect of DHEA/testosteron, when the dirty doctors continue to recommend its use!
¤ Winner of the Golden League Fantasy Game 2008 |
Edited by - KD teammate on 18/04/2009 18:26:21 |
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kxtr
National Champion
Germany
932 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 13:24:46
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German news magazine Focus claims to know, that Thomas Dekker, Michale Boogerd and Michael Rasmussen were doping clients of Matschiner!
Seems not too unlikely, as these then-Rabobak riders were already linked with the Wienerlut/Humanplasma-affaire when it first popped up.
But maybe this story is all about the fact, that they were linked in the past?
However, the story is on radsportnews.com - but not on Foucs' own website [yet].
argh |
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mashjaja
National Champion
USA
900 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 15:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CrossRacer
quote:
Originally posted by kxtr
I'm curious how that will affect the existence of Rock Racing.
The day before the Hamilton announcement, Ball fired three other Rock racers. IT will be very interesting to see how they will be affected.
Which 3? I missed anything in the media about this......
www.chaoscyclingclub.com/forum |
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KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2009 : 19:51:13
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The T-mobile affair 2006 (part 5)
Der Spiegel today reveal, that the investigation made by the Freiburg commission of the T-mobile affair, now has been finalized.
Back in March 2008 a prelimenary report was published by the commission, and I summarized the important findings right here:
The T-mobile affair 2006 (part 4): http://forum.teamcsc-saxobank.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5013&whichpage=7
The commission completed April 16 the final investigation report at 64 pages, but its unclear when it will become public available! Der Spiegel somehow had access to the report, and made a short article to summarize the main conclusions (www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,621083,00.html):
- Dr.Lothar Heinrich and Dr.Andreas Schmid established and operated systematic doping of T-mobile in all years from 1995-2006.
- A.Klöden and M.Kessler recieved autologous blood doping on July 2 in 2006 at the Freiburg clinic. Sinkewitz got his blood 1 day before.
- Main supplier to the doping network (delivering 2/3 of the drugs in 2006) was the "Rathaus-Apotheke" in the Schwarzwald city Elzach.
- In regards of the alleged implication of Joseph Keul (Dr. in sports medicine, who died in 2000), no proofs were found.
The investigation commision questioned 77 witnesses and reviewed a lot of fysical evidense and computers. But wether or not the evidense will be strong enough also to convict Andreas Klöden (and other riders) guilty of blood doping in 2006, remains to be seen. With the serious efforts made in Germany, I predict a doping trial against Klöden will start as soon as the investigation report becomes public, or available for use in the sports court. If a case is started in civil court against one of the implicated, the sports court probably wont get access to the report, before the civil court settle the case.
¤ Winner of the Golden League Fantasy Game 2008 |
Edited by - KD teammate on 25/04/2009 20:24:05 |
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Pedro_Santana
Neo Pro
Portugal
50 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2009 : 20:08:14
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Davide Rebellin and Stefan Schumacher have tested positive in Olympic games Beijing...
Is very sad see Davide Rebellin tested positive...
Saxo Bank is the best!!!
Andy you are the BEST!!!
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CrossRacer
National Champion
USA
322 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2009 : 14:25:10
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| Baldwin was rehired by Rock Racing. Guess they gave him the spot they that opened up from Hamilton's departure. |
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CrossRacer
National Champion
USA
322 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2009 : 19:23:09
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| Redonde (Andalucia) tested positive. He was on Astana in 2007 until he was fired. |
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csc-austria
National Champion
Austria
603 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 19:33:57
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Christian Pfannberger (AUT) tested positive.
I was already thing about this possibility because he was removed from the Giro-roster yesterday, although he was nominated as a board in the line-up.
We can expect a lifetime-ban, because he was already suspended from 2004-2006 for testosterone-doping. |
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Doping affairs in Cycling since 1980
