| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Sindre
Stagiaire
28 Posts |
 Posted - 24/07/2007 : 16:48:43
|
| The biggest problem in cycling concerning doping, is not a positive doping test once in a while. Its the bigger cases like the Fuentes case. And even worse for the sport is that the cases is not finished, but keeps coming back every time a bigger cycling race is held. It is still alive ande slowly killing the sport like cancer. |
 |
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 20:28:39
|
Number of doping users in Cycling
If we count the number of positive convicted riders since 1st jan.2005 (excl. the 50 accused OP riders), then we get this number:
Convicted riders from ProTour Teams or Professional Continental Teams: 48 out of aprox.1100 (4.4%)
Today I have been reading a very interesting article from Germany, that to a new degree is higlighting how big the doping problem really was and still is in Cycling. I recommend that you all read it. In the article we have statements from the responsible UCI antidoping analytic, that have been monitoring all riders blood values since 1996, and therefor is able to provide a detailed picture of how this Doping problem has evolved. Reading this article, its evident that its only a little fraction of the doped riders who get caught!
http://l036sys0.nzz.ch/2007/08/05/sp/articleFEA8M.print.html
For those who dont like to read German, I have translated the entire content below:
- Each time a blood control is made as part of UCIs health programme, they have analysed the samples for biomarkers, and has been able to draw a map of what is normal and what is "illness" (alias doping). Looking some few years into the future, the laboratorium hopes to have developed a bulletproof testing method based on the biomarkers, but until then, these tests are currently only used to target: what riders to keep an extra eye on.
- Blood values was analyzed from 1996-2007. Sottas give this description of the method: "The method is very accurate. And it functions with all forms of blood manipulation: EPO Doping, own and foreign blood transfusion. We can determine today with certainty, how many doped riders that are starting at each Grand Tours".
- First tests was done during Tour de Suisse in 1996. Back then there was no test for prooving EPO doping, but today they can now say with certainty, that over 80% of the riders were doped. Mr. Sottas explains, that he is convinced the doping numbers was just as high in other endurance disciplins in 1996, but Cycling was the only discipline where this kind of reasearch has been allowed. He asked IOC to make research on the samples from OL in Atlanta 1996, but they refused.
- The amount of riders in 2007, who are busy for example with Testosteron doping, is just as high as those using Blood doping. And very often it concerns the same people. The picture is less precise regarding the use of Growth Hormones, because the 2006 test really does not function to detect this. But studies prove that growth hormones only are effective in combination with EPO or anabolic steroids.
Doping development according to mr.Sottas:
1996: There is no functional doping control. Over 80% of riders used EPO.
1997-1999: In 1997 UCI introduced health limits for the riders blood profiles. Heamatocrite value of 50 is the most known. In the start there was several riders measured above, but quickly the riders learned only to dope within the health limits, and today health suspensions are very seldom. Introduction of the Haematocrite limit, resulted in a decline of the amount of used doping.
2000: Everyone has now learned how to manipulate the Haematocrite values. EPO is used again more broadly.
2001: In April the EPO test is introduced, and before start of TDF 2001, the entire Peloton was practically clean! But already in the third week of the race, there was again an increase in the numbers of blood manipulated riders. Apparently the importance of the victory, had caused that the best payed riders already had discovered how to cheat the EPO test.
2002: In start of the year, the blood manipulation is again widespread, and towards end of the year it rises even more clearly.
2003: The problem is worse in the Vuelta, where the riders profit of the relaxed attitude from Spaniards towards doping. Most used methods, is use of EPO in micro doses and Transfusions with foreign blood, where both methods at that time was undetectable.
2004/2005: A test for foreign blood Transfusions is introduced. Tyler Hamilton and Santiago Perez are caught. Shortly afterwords this really shocked the riders away from blood doping, but within short time they just started to use their own blood as blood doping. Nevertheless, the amount of riders who manipulate their blood declines to "only" 50%! But this is still only an average value, and there is a clear pattern, showing that among the best riders, the percentage of dopers are still higher than 50%. The values during the Vuelta is again above values from other races.
2006: After Operacion Puerto the blood manipulation decreases in Spain. Number of dopers has never been that low, since spring 2001!
2007: The laboratorium can proof, that less than 25% of the 180 riders in TDF 2007 started the race with manipulated blood! However, among the first 30 riders in the overall, the percentage is still higher compared to the riders placed last in the overall. Looking at the teams, there are no longer any teams where all riders are doped (like in 2003), but still its evident that certain teams are more or less collecting on a great number of doped riders. There is also still a tendency, that many riders from certain countries are having abnormal blood values, while other countries are a lot cleaner.
All numbers above covers the percentage of riders, that either used: EPO, homologous blood doping or autologous blood doping.
|
Edited by - KD teammate on 08/08/2007 11:45:57 |
|
|
|
Omland
Neo Pro
83 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 10:37:00
|
KD,
You published a very interested document.
My only concern is that from your translation I understand that mr. Sottas is suggesting that they can “monitor” also for autologous blood transfusion: this is not actually possible.
Do you have any further information about this?
It is good however that from UCI some document is diffused about these topics: I would be realy very interested to know the names of the riders with undetectable EPO in urines!!!
|
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:06:03
|
Yes, mr. Sottas stated that they can "monitor" also for autologous blood transfusion, but they still have no valid test to actualy proof it in the sports court. This test is however something they currently work to develop. The way their current method works, is to measeure the entire set of biomarkers and blood parameters, and then look if there are any suspectful values. In June 2006, doping scientist Rasmus Damsgaard confirmed to the Danish media, that he is also using a method to indicate use of autologous blood transfusion. I believe that he is using the same method from the Lausanne laboratorium, on the riders from Team CSC.
The problem with a validated testing method, is that its required to be more than 99,99% accurate. Simply to avoid that innosent people are mistakenly punished. At this point of time, it seems like the method from Lausanne has an accuracy well above 90% (judging to the confident statements from Mr.Sottas), and he even confirmed that they are working to get it validated sometime in the future. So I believe we can trust the overall numbers reported above.
The numbers above covers the percentage of riders, that either used: EPO, homologous blood doping or autologous blood doping. |
Edited by - KD teammate on 08/08/2007 11:23:29 |
|
|
|
Green Machine
Hors Categorie
Sweden
2342 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:38:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
2007: The laboratorium can proof, that less than 25% of the 180 riders in TDF 2007 started the race without manipulated blood!
Thanks for the posting. Interesting. But above must be a misspelling? Isn't it supposed to say: "The laboratorium can prove, that less than 25% of the 180 riders in TDF 2007 started the race with manipulated blood!"?
Or does it really say that at least 75% of riders rode with manipulated blood? |
|
|
|
Green Machine
Hors Categorie
Sweden
2342 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:41:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
Yes, mr. Sottas stated that they can "monitor" also for autologous blood transfusion, but they still have no valid test to actualy proof it in the sports court. This test is however something they currently work to develop.
Actually, the test is developed by a couple of researchers at Umeå University in Sweden. They have been funded by WADA to produce this test. The researchers said they have made great progress and that there won't be any problems developing a valid test, BUT that it probably won't be ready for another year. |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:50:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Green Machine
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
2007: The laboratorium can proof, that less than 25% of the 180 riders in TDF 2007 started the race without manipulated blood!
Thanks for the posting. Interesting. But above must be a misspelling? Isn't it supposed to say: "The laboratorium can prove, that less than 25% of the 180 riders in TDF 2007 started the race with manipulated blood!"?
Yes, it was a misspelling from my side. There was less than 25% with manipulated blood. It has now been corrected, and I checked my entire post if there was other mistakes, but fortunatly this was the only one. Thanks for correcting.  |
|
|
|
DK-IT
National Champion
Italy
403 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:57:25
|
Thanks for the insight, KD !
As long as these relative figures are anonumus it is a great help to give a picture of the situation, and promote antidoping mesures.
I know it would be dangerous but I very much would like to see a per team dope index (eg. team X: 60% probality) based on all riders. as I think that next after the riders the mesure the sport need to take against doping has to be towards the teams (the flow of the money).
--- Voigt for president ! --- |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 13/08/2007 : 01:16:40
|
Another doping story from Jans Koerts
This rider is not the best known in the Peleton, but still he is listed for 52 victories during his career and won the Dutch championship in 2001. He was riding for: PDM (92), Festina (93+94), Palmans (95+96), Rabobank (97+98), Cologne (99), Farm Frites (00), Mercury (01), Domo-Farm frites (02), BankGirolotereij (03), Chocolade Jacques (04) and Cofidis (05). (www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/netherlands.Koerts.htm)
The reason why I report his confession, is because its telling the story from a rider with a different experience, compared to other recent confessions. He was never a hugh star rider, and that might have given him a slower introduction to Doping:
When Koerts started his career as neopro for PDM in 1992, he was not introduced to a doping program. So he was riding clean in 1992. He was not suspicious back then, because he didnt see riders on the team doing illegal stuff. He explains that today he understand what was going on at both PDM and Festina, but back then he was in the start naiv enough to believe, that the team he was riding for didnt use EPO. Even at Festina he didnt knew that Virenque used EPO. At Festina he started to recieve testosterone doping in 1993, but was never introduced to EPO.
Koerts realised only in 1996, that most of the peleton in fact was riding on EPO. Earlier he had heard the rumour about Gewiss Ballan, and when suddenly these riders was loosing big time to riders from GB MG, then he got suspicious. He asked one of the well informed riders, about what was going on, and felt stupid when he realised, that he hadnt been aware himself until now (about the widespread EPO use). In 1997 UCI introduced the hematocrite level on 50, and since Koerts had a natural value around 49, he decided to go on, without the use of EPO. He was several times controled by the team doctor at Rabobank, and since his natural Hematocrite was quiet high, he each time recieved special salt tablets, to artificialy lower the value before the important official controls.
Only in 1999, Koerts is for the first time using EPO. He bought it from a Spanish pharmacy, when the team was on training camp. He found out that EPO doping was much more helpfull for him, than he previously had thought. Since he had a high value from the start, it was not a question of gaining a higher value for the races. The bennefit was, that under intensive training where his natural hematocrite would normaly drop to 44, then he could use EPO to train harder under a maintained high hematocrite on 50. Suddenly he was able to train harder, and bennefit from this. He used EPO and testosterone in 1999+2000+2001+2003, and never had any bad feelings about it, because he was basicly just doing the same stuff like all the others.
In 2002 he didnt take EPO on Domo-Farm Frites. Manager Lefevre had told them, that all riders would get fired from the team, in case he found out they was taking EPO. He respected that warning. In 2003 he used EPO again, when riding for BankGirolotereij. But in 2004+2005 after the improved control methods, he decided it was too risky for him to continue with EPO. And he never started to experiment with Blood doping, like they did in Spain. His career ended in July 2005 after a bad crash in Spain.
www.sportwereld.be/Article/Detail.aspx?articleID=FS1FUJGR
The confession above, seems more or less to confirm the results from the earlier discussed blood analysis report by Dr.Zorzoli. The results from this report was based on blood values, that indicated a change of the most normal doping method among the riders, from 2002 to 2003. Suddenly EPO was no longer used like in the previous years (due to a better control method), and instead there was signs of blood doping becoming the most prefered doping method! (www.dshs-koeln.de/biochemie/rubriken/07_info/UCI_Studie.pdf)
And if Koerts is telling the truth, then it was not all riders in the peleton, who knew about the widespread EPO use in 1993-1996!
|
Edited by - KD teammate on 13/08/2007 01:37:42 |
|
|
|
Green Machine
Hors Categorie
Sweden
2342 Posts |
Posted - 13/08/2007 : 09:17:47
|
| What his story also confirms is that it was possible, and seemingly quite easy, to take EPO and other doping products without getting caught as late as 2003. That is only some years ago. And when a rider like Koerts takes EPO and testosterone, it is naive to believe that the "star riders" in the peloton were clean. Again it gives us a hint that most results in cycling up to recent years have been achieved through doping. |
|
|
|
fluke
Hors Categorie
2018 Posts |
Posted - 26/08/2007 : 20:48:12
|
| Doping just goes on and takes new forms. Just read that 70 new substances are on the edge to be used. Some of these products work on the level before epo and stimulate the creation of "natural epo" and even makes to blood run faster and more efficient in the body. Of course no tests are yet developed for those products. |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 27/08/2007 : 01:07:10
|
I agree that we have a constant development in doping methods. The designer drug THG from USA was just one small example. I dare not to think about, what they currently is expirementing with in China (ahead of the olympics). If we really want to prevent thos who want to cheat from cheating, then its a question of accepting retro active testing (where old samples are stored in upto 10 years, and all tested when the needed testing methods are created). An example of retro active testing was the research test done in 2005 of the Tour samples from 1998+1999. This test proofed that Armstrong was on EPO in 1999, but since retro active testing is not alowed as judical procedure, nobody could convict Armstrong in an official trial.
In combination with retro active testing, UCI should extend the blood profile mapping as an accepted method to clear riders to do races. In case you have abnormal values, you are today alowed to race, since these strange values could be due to illnes or other factors. But if UCI decides that all with strange values are not allowed to race, then it will just be a precaution parameter and a factor to accept for all riders. Even though you are innosent and havent cheated, you are just not alowed to race if you have strange values! This solution could be great. Suddenly we could watch the strange values falling from 25% to only 1%. Yes, it would sometime harm those being innosent, if they get a cold or something like that, but isnt that a price everybody should accept to pay, if it basicly secures that everybody is competing clean?
To prevent the gendoping from happening, we really need to immedeatly start collecting DNA from the moment a child is born. These samples should be stored and used for future antidoping controls, in case the baby sometime in the future decides to be a professional athlete. So in order to have any professional sports license, you should each month pass this DNA test! But wouldnt this by ethical violation of human beings? No, not really. Just consider how this would function in real life. When the baby is born you cut the umbilical cord (navlestreng), and then the hospital just have to freeze down a little sample of this in a giant freezer. Only in case the person once decides to apply for any sort of professional sports license, this sample will be unfrozen for testing. So it should be perfectly save and without any concern.
Many dont like this thought of DNA testing all babys. But to be honest, I dont see any other way around. And I guess this political decision will eventualy be made in 10 or 20 years from today! Those countries not joining this procedure, will simply be excluded for all international competition. Just wait and see. |
|
|
|
fluke
Hors Categorie
2018 Posts |
Posted - 27/08/2007 : 05:17:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
I agree that we have a constant development in doping methods. The designer drug THG from USA ...
Take a look at Hypoxia Inducible Factors. |
|
|
|
Quiche
Elite Rider
Denmark
134 Posts |
Posted - 27/08/2007 : 20:41:56
|
BUT, eventhough there might be a lot of new products, they still doesn't change what Sottas is pointing out, that you need to monitor the blood profiles. All these doping products affect the blood profiles and so they might not be able to detect all the products in the blood, but they ARE able to see if the blood profiles are reacting mysteriously.
But it kind of surprises me, that KD is refering to Sottas to state this fact, because that is exactly the point Damsgaard has made for a few years now. it's not a new Lausanne method, it's actually an old Bispebjerg method. But the important thing is, that it is the right way to do it.
In my mind they could just invent a rule stating that if your blood profile changes significantly from day 14 to 15 during the Tour or whatever race, there's too much indicating doping, so you have to leave the race. Unless a neutral doctor has been called upon to find that the rider has been ill or whatever might have forced the blood profile to change. But in that case, actually, you might as well leave the race anyway, because then you should not ride 200km competing with the best riders in the world.
I mean, if they can call upon the hematocrit value to be no higher than 50 % for health reasons, then why not look more closely at all the blood values and state that if you have x % change from one day to the next, you are out?
On another note:
They (UCI) ought to go out and say: Listen folks, we can't test for this and that right now, but we WILL actually go back and look at the blood samples once we have a bullet proof testing method. And then you will get busted. They ought to say that RIGHT NOW and then just lay it out, that all samples taken from this day forward will be ready for testing for the next....let's say 5 years.....
So if you deliver a positive sample in Vuelta 2007, but it is not discovered untill 2010, you will get busted. And then you will have to pay back one years salary or whatever steep punishment we could agree upon.
I realize that it's awfully difficult to manage, but this is a rule I'd like to have to make sure that people don't dope. |
Edited by - Quiche on 27/08/2007 20:47:53 |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2007 : 13:14:06
|
It seems like we fully agree Quiche, about the need of both retro active testing, and tempoary health suspensions when strange fluxtuations is measured in the blood profile. The reason why I reported Sottas as the man behind the blood profile research, was only because I simply translated what was written in the German article. I know Damsgaard and Sweedish scientists has been working with this for a while, and I believe their progres is really great (most likely Sottas is indeed just using their developed method).
Another important measure we havent discussed lately, is the need for all countries to implement effective Antidoping laws. Its evident that testing methods are important, but still they can not solve the entire problem when standing alone. In those cases where test methods are not good enough (or towards those diciplines where tests rarely are made), we simply need the police to be able to uncover doping use and doping trade!
The famous doping scientist Sandro Donati, has earlier suggested that the police should intensify their doping investigation to combat doping trade and doping use, and in 2006 Interpol opened a department for this purpose (working together with WADA). Just to illustrate the extend of the doping problem, I can tell you that Donati published a report in March 2007, where he estimated the number of world wide doping users, to be around 31 million people.
Donati's report: www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/WADA_releases_new_Donati_report_on_trafficking_of_doping_substances.aspx
In Germany the famous track rider Daniel Becke, has just started an important discussion, about the need to implement a new antidoping law in Germany. He asked politicians and BDR to consider making it illegal to use doping for these reasons below:
1) Athletes are only doping when they think bennefits are greater than the risks. Antidoping law will increase the risks, and be preventive.
2) Athletes are currently having a difficult time to say NO to doping. They believe all the others are doing it, and when its not illegal, athletes are simply not having bad consiounce to use doping. Criminalisation of doping users will make them feel guilty about it.
3) Police investigations and raids, are known to have a positive impact to decrease athletes consumption of doping. With a doping law against doping use, this will allow the police to make more control visits and raids. Hence, more athletes will be scared to dope in the future.
You can read the entire letter from Daniel Becke in the link below. He is talking with background in his own experience (while he was riding for ProTour teams in many years), and are listing his ideas how to make a positive difference in the doping fight. Becke explains that he never doped himself, but that this was a hard choise for him to make (he only didnt dope, because he was concerned about his health, and because his main focus was on track racings rather than road racing, so he wasnt in desperate need). By the way, Daniel Becke is in fact also suggesting the proposal from me and Quiche, about implementing retro active tests!
Interview and letters from Daniel Becke: http://radsportnews.net/2007/becke_0208.shtml
|
Edited by - KD teammate on 29/08/2007 13:20:20 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Doping affairs in Cycling since 1980
