| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Valverde
National Champion
Netherlands
572 Posts |
 Posted - 17/01/2008 : 22:34:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
Doping affairs in cycling from 1980-1998
PDM affair (1990-1992):
First police investigation of a team with systematic doping. Rumours that PDM in 86-89 used doping from dr. Jansen, was never proofed. But in feb.90 one of their riders on EPO, dies of heart attack, and later in same year 2 riders retire with bad heart. The entire team abandons in Tour De France 1991 with “health problems”, and in 1997 one of these riders admit the abandon was because they all injected EPO that had not been properly cooled. The scandal about the team was uncovered by the police, and became only known by public in Nov.1997. Dr. Wim Sanders gets convicted in civil court for leading a private doping network in 1990-1995. Pharmacist Jearndarme admits in 1997 his supply of doping products to PDM (dr.Sanders and dr.Ryckaert), but further states that he also supplied other teams in Italy, Netherlands, and Belgium (incl.Lotto). When PDM closed down after 1992, most staff continued on Festina.
Convicted staff: Krikke (manager), Gisbers (sports director), 3 pharmacists (incl. Jearndarme, old friend of Merckx+Anquetil+Gimondi)
5 convicted riders: Raul Alcala, Erik Breukink, Rudy Dhaenens, Sean Kelly, Danny Nelissen
12 riders (no trial): Ampler, Boden, Den-Bakker, Earley, Jakobs, Kummer, H.Maier, Raab, Van-Aert, Van-Petegem, Van-Poppel, Verhoeven
The last week in the Netherlands the PDM-story was told in a quarterly cycling magazine De Muur and also in a short documentary. It was refreshing to read it and to bring back the memories. A once in a lifetime opportunity for Breukink to win the Tour was lost. It's no news wat has been written in this magazine or what was aired on television but apparently it's necessary to write the real story.
What you are writing here is bull****. In 1991 the team had to abandon because they were injected with Intrapilid. This isn't dope. This food substance should help recover the riders but wasn't stored properly. During the Tour PDM claimed it was foodpoisoning due to chicken. But two week later in a pressconference they came with intrapilid as cause for the foodpoisoning. For your claim about epo there seems to be no basis.
One of the riders who died after a heartattack was Johannes Draaijer. Three weeks before he died, a hospital examined him and found out he had an hereditary heartdisorder. This was not communicated to the rider in time.
|
 |
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 00:21:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Valverde
What you are writing here is bull****. In 1991 the team had to abandon because they were injected with Intrapilid. This isn't dope. This food substance should help recover the riders but wasn't stored properly. During the Tour PDM claimed it was foodpoisoning due to chicken. But two week later in a pressconference they came with intrapilid as cause for the foodpoisoning. For your claim about epo there seems to be no basis.
What you write above is the prepared story done by the PDM press manager. Do you really believe they are telling you the truth? I admit my version of the story contains an element of speculation. But hey, 4 riders admitted the team had systematic doping, so why do you suddenly believe they were riding clean in the Tour 1991. This is not logical reasoning to me!
My sources for the PDM story was mainly: www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=389.
But I also used some great additions from several news coverage from Cyclingnews. I believe my version of the story is closer to the truth, compared to a version stipulated by the team management. But if it indeed was intrapilid instead of EPO, it still dont change all the other facts I wrote above. I think its evident that PDM had systematic doping on the team, in the early 90s.  |
|
|
|
Valverde
National Champion
Netherlands
572 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 08:28:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
quote:
Originally posted by Valverde
What you are writing here is bull****. In 1991 the team had to abandon because they were injected with Intrapilid. This isn't dope. This food substance should help recover the riders but wasn't stored properly. During the Tour PDM claimed it was foodpoisoning due to chicken. But two week later in a pressconference they came with intrapilid as cause for the foodpoisoning. For your claim about epo there seems to be no basis.
What you write above is the prepared story done by the PDM press manager. Do you really believe they are telling you the truth? I admit my version of the story contains an element of speculation. But hey, 4 riders admitted the team had systematic doping, so why do you suddenly believe they were riding clean in the Tour 1991. This is not logical reasoning to me!
My sources for the PDM story was mainly: www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=389.
But I also used some great additions from several news coverage from Cyclingnews. I believe my version of the story is closer to the truth, compared to a version stipulated by the team management. But if it indeed was intrapilid instead of EPO, it still dont change all the other facts I wrote above. I think its evident that PDM had systematic doping on the team, in the early 90s.
In my memory it was intrapilid and the magazine, which isn't written by the pr-manager of PDM but by journalists who did research and interviews with people who were directly involved. This a completely different approach in comparison with taking for granted what is written on a forum.
Yesterday, Mr Sanders indeed said we (at PDM) did a lot to be outstanding. So that could mean indeed anything, but saying the 1991 team abandon in the Tour was caused by not well stored EPO is false.
I don't claim it was a clean team. Perhaps you add something about Gert-Jan Theunisse to your story.
Convicted: Erik Breukink?
But go on and believe your own stories and rumours.
|
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 12:22:27
|
Comon Valverde, let's not turn this into a fight of small details that doesnt matter. I have several sources to document that PDM doped systematicly in 1990-1992. We have the confession from Rooks+Winnen+Ducrot in 1999, the confession from Uwe Raab, the confession from the manager Krikke, and the confession from the pharmacist jeandarme. Dr.Wim Sanders was convicted guilty in the civil court, and his assistent provided a detailed list of the clients getting illegal doping from the doctor. This is a very well documented case. Then we can always question some small unimportant details, if it was bad stored EPO or intralipid (a medicament to mask other doping products), who forced the riders to leave the Tour in 1991. But this detail doesnt change the fact, that the PDM team did some heavy systematic doping in 1990-1992.
For all who is curious to learn about further details in the case, I will recommend to read this string of articles from Cyclingnews:
Part 1: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov28a.html
Part 2: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29.html
Part 3: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29a.html
Part 4: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29b.html
Part 5: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov30.html
Part 6: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1.html
Part 7: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1a.html
Part 8: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec2a.html
Part 9: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec3.html
Part 10: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec4.html
Part 11: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec4a.html
Part 12: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec5.html
Part 13: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec6.html
Part 14: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec6a.html
Part 15: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec8.html
Part 16: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec11a.html
Rider confessions: www.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jan00/jan6news.shtml
Let me set the record straight. In this topic I have never written anything, that cant be documented with sources. About Dreijer his wife stood forward and claimed her husband died because of taking EPO (perhaps in connection with already having a bad heart). I have chosen to trust the wife, rather than interviewed PDM staff in this particulair part of the story. In regards of the "convicted riders" listed above, they were never suspended or convicted in the sports court. But they were clearly identified as recieving doping products from Dr.Sanders, by his assistent. This part of the story has been reported by professional journalists working at the newspaper, "De Limburger". |
Edited by - KD teammate on 18/01/2008 12:39:12 |
|
|
|
Valverde
National Champion
Netherlands
572 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 12:36:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
Comon Valverde, let's not turn this into a fight of meaningless words. I have several sources to document that PDM doped systematicly in 1990-1992. We have the confession from Rooks+Winnen+Ducrot in 1999, the confession from Uwe Raab, the confession from the manager Krikke, and the confession from the pharmacist jeandarme. Dr.Wim Sanders was convicted guilty in the civil court, and his assistent provided detailed list of the clients getting illegal doping from the doctor. This is a very well documented case. Then we can always question some small details, if it was bad stored EPO or intralipid (a medicament to mask other doping products).
For all who is curious to learn about further details in the case, I will recommend to read this string of articles from Cyclingnews:
Part 1: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov28a.html
Part 2: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29.html
Part 3: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29a.html
Part 4: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov29b.html
Part 5: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/nov97/nov30.html
Part 6: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1.html
Part 7: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1a.html
Part 8: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec2a.html
Part 9: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec3.html
Part 10: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec4.html
Part 11: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec4a.html
Part 12: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec5.html
Part 13: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec6.html
Part 14: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec6a.html
Part 15: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec8.html
Part 16: www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec11a.html
Rider confessions: www.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jan00/jan6news.shtml
Let me set the record straight. In this topic I have never written anything, that cant be documented with sources. About Dreijer his wife stood forward and claimed her husband died because of taking EPO (perhaps in connection with already having a bad heart). I have chosen to trust the wife, rather than interviewed PDM staff in this particulair part of the story. In regards of the "convicted riders" listed above, they were never suspended or convicted in the sports court. But they were clearly identified as recieving doping products from Dr.Sanders, by his assistent. This part of the story has been reported by professional journalists working at the newspaper, "De Limburger".
Okay, then you perhaps sould order De Muur to keep your documentation up to date: http://www.ljveen.nl/demuur.asp and do a little translation.
Keep your own vision of it and try to sell it as the truth (and now you even don't want to discuss about it). I keep mine. In my opinion writing it was not properly stored epo isn't a detail but a major mistake. Taking for granted intrapilid is used to mask the use of dope is also questionable.
But once again, I don't claim PDM was a clean team. |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 12:59:13
|
| What I tried to write above, is that it does not matter wether or not it was bad stored EPO or intralipid, that forced out the PDM team of the Tour in 1991. Next time when I update post 1, I will inform better about this detail of the story. My point is, that this single detail, really dont change the main part of the story. We already know from several sources, that the PDM tour riders was top doped with doping from Dr.Sanders, and that the PDM team did some heavy systematic doping in 1990-1992. |
|
|
|
CrossRacer
National Champion
USA
322 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2008 : 21:07:16
|
ESPN has a great article on Slipstream, focusing on their anti-doping stance. It is rather lengthy, but I thought it was very interesting. And it includes comments from Zabriskie and Vande Velde.
The article also has a link to a photo gallery. One picture in the article is funny. It was taken in December 2007, so all the riders are in their old clothing due to the contracts. So the Team Slipstream photo features riders wearing uniforms from CSC, Cofidis, Sauiner Duval, Liquigas, Credit Agricole, Discovery, and a national champion jersey (maybe Julian Dean in the Australia or New Zealand jersey, I'm not exactly sure). It is photo #9 in the Zoom gallery.
The article is at this site: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/slipstream
I enjoyed it, and fans of Slipstream will probably like reading it.
I posted the link in this thread since it talks a lot about Slipstream's new anti-doping style and how cyclying is trying to get away from the image of being a sport filled doping scandals. |
Edited by - CrossRacer on 18/01/2008 21:09:55 |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2008 : 23:19:45
|
Progress in Operation Oil For Drugs (2001-2004)!
On January 22, the CONI prosecutor so far has made his judgment upon this number of implicated persons in Operation Oil For Drug:
2 doctors, 9 professional riders, 23 Amateur riders and 2 other athletes.
Update: During 2008 we have more judgements in Operation Oil For Drugs still to come. On page 8 in this topic, you will find the detailed story about the case, and also the updated list of all the settled cases.
|
Edited by - KD teammate on 21/04/2008 15:57:44 |
|
|
|
Heppu
Stagiaire
Finland
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 15:25:00
|
Very informative doping thread indeed. As I’ve followed these phenomenon, I can only agree about the overall picture what is given here. A lot of new details for me as I am not from cycling country.
Cycling and cross country skiing have gone much hand in hand in doping at least for last twenty years. Partly this is due to “Italian connection” (Italy has been in forefront in both sports and doping development), partly due to same kind of nearly superhuman challenges they put to athletes.
Finland has had its share of doping cases. 2001 we has a national catastrophe as all our national ski team was caught (in World Champs in Finland) using per se rather soft Hemohes liquid to mask the use of epo. Other teams took seriously advantage notices and escaped the trap. As you have written here it is quite easy to mask the use of epo simply “thinning” the blood/urine with liquids.
Recently we had a new doping case as previous cross country skier Kaisa Varis was caught using epo (now as a biathlon competitor). Our Finnish anti-doping authority ADT gave a very informative presser linked to this incidence. It contained an interesting side note. According to our ADT there is a large variation among individuals how they show the use of epo in urine tests. There are people who practically ever seem to show negative results. Others show positive results even a week after usage. Have you met/seen/heard of this variation in your sources? If this is true is brings an easy escape for those who can afford to test themselves as “immune” to present tests.
A well known Lausanne antidoping laboratory’s Martial Saugy has years ago claimed that use of GH might work as a booster to the benefits of epo. We had among our skiers a suspicion during heavy doping years that they use also GH. Have you any knowledge about this positive linkage between epo and GH? I’ve read from US baseball/football doping that they use GH, which is undetectable, and then make use of small amounts of testosterone/steroids, and cannot get caught of anything.
We had two weeks ago a program in Finnish television where Jorg Jaksche was interviewed. JJ said those same things he said already in Der Spiegel. From famous (in good and in bad) Freiburg University clinic Olaf Schumacher was also in program and he said that he do not believe that a single cross country Olympic/Worlds medallist was clean from epo during 1990’s. I am not quite so sure that already 1991 all would have been doped by epo. On the other hand we can see how Italy and Norway climbed to dominated cross country races just when epo made its arrival into sports. Finnish skiers came a few years behind – and get badly caught 2001.
In earlier posts there was a claim that Swedish orienteers died in early 1990’s because of the use of epo. I find this hard to believe because those deaths started already 1979. Scientific studies have not indicated epo at all. So would like to hear where does this rumour come from?
I’ve seen that there is a special thread for Puerto. Just a comment that Spain seems to be a hopeless country what comes to doping. Authorities only mask things. Pat Mc Quaid and Dick Pound have used harsh words against Spaniards but nothing changes. We probably never get any clearance about Puerto affaire. It is a pity because there are so many other sports than cycling involved and linked to Fuentes.
Heppu |
|
|
|
fluke
Hors Categorie
2018 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 06:28:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Heppu
Very informative doping thread indeed. As I’ve followed these phenomenon, I can only agree about the overall picture what is given here. A lot of new details for me as I am not from cycling country.
[...]
Heppu
Thank you for this post Heppu. It sums up a general opinion of what we have been discussing on this forum for a very long time.
|
|
|
|
Heppu
Stagiaire
Finland
10 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 16:12:25
|
Finnish anti-doping agency clarified that at the moment urine epo test gives negative results in 30 % of cases where the tested one is actually epo user. That is quite a window of opportunity for dopers. On the other hand as test results may vary with one and same person after same dosages, there is a risk that one day you are caught, another you pass by. Blood test is even more unreliable and cannot be used as an official test.
Would still be interested to know if anyone has any knowledge related to this issue.
Heppu |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 19:18:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Heppu
1) According to our ADT there is a large variation among individuals how they show the use of epo in urine tests. There are people who practically ever seem to show negative results. Others show positive results even a week after usage. Have you met/seen/heard of this variation in your sources? If this is true is brings an easy escape for those who can afford to test themselves as “immune” to present tests.
2) A well known Lausanne antidoping laboratory’s Martial Saugy has years ago claimed that use of GH might work as a booster to the benefits of epo. We had among our skiers a suspicion during heavy doping years that they use also GH. Have you any knowledge about this positive linkage between epo and GH? I’ve read from US baseball/football doping that they use GH, which is undetectable, and then make use of small amounts of testosterone/steroids, and cannot get caught of anything.
3) I am not quite so sure that already 1991 all would have been doped by epo. On the other hand we can see how Italy and Norway climbed to dominated cross country races just when epo made its arrival into sports. Finnish skiers came a few years behind – and get badly caught 2001.
4) In earlier posts there was a claim that Swedish orienteers died in early 1990’s because of the use of epo. I find this hard to believe because those deaths started already 1979. Scientific studies have not indicated epo at all. So would like to hear where does this rumour come from?
Hi Heppu, sorry for my late reply. I dont have detailed answers for all your questions, but can perhaps provide some more details. 
1) What I have heard so far, is that there indeed is a great variation in how the testing numbers change in each doped athlete. One of the intentions with the biological passport, is to draw the basis line for each athlete, and then monitor any variations from this individual basis line. This approach should be far better, than operating with threshold values in the doping tests.
2) Regarding GH, there has been published some studies with the conclusion, that a rider could only bennefit from GH+EPO, and not by only using GH alone. This was claimed to have something to do with the fact, that the athlete with GH also gain some kilos in weight, and the bennefits from greater muscles is difficult to exploit efficiently, in case you dont also have some kind of elevated hematocrite, bringing them a sufficient level of oxygen. However, I dont know if this "rule" also applies for sprinters, or perhaps only for mountain riders.
A test for Growth Hormones is expected to get launched during the next few months! www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=3872
The famous Lausane laboratorium, has announced that a blood test for GH is soon to be introduced. The lab. currently carry out the last checks of a legal nature, and has promised to have an efficient test readdy before OL in Peijing. The first test for growth hormone was introduced at the time of the Olympic Games of Athens in 2004, but since the test was not efficient, no sample was ever tested positive.
3) Different theories exist about when EPO was broadly used. In Cycling we have certainty about 1993 being the year, where EPO became broadly used in Italy. So UCI think the EPO era started in 1993. But considering the fact, that EPO was available on the black market from Jan.1988, and that the medical companies wanted to cary out test studies on some riders in 1989, I think its realistic to expect EPO as broadly used on most top teams, already in 1990. In example we have several riders from the PDM team, who got problems with "a bad heart" in 1990 (a natural side effect caused of too high epo consumption).
4) The source (www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=348#c1086) about orientation runners who died from EPO use, might be wrong. As far as I know its impossible to proof, why the many athletes died. Its however remarkable, that the death count suddenly rised in those years from 1989-1992. In my opinion, the athletes who died, most likely already had a bad heart in first place, and they probably died from the extra amount of stress caused by an excessive use of EPO. While riders with a completely healthy hearth, probably never had any problems with the EPO consumption. Later introduced dillution techniques, and the hematocrite level of 50, removed the danger of EPO consumption. |
|
|
|
Heppu
Stagiaire
Finland
10 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 22:05:01
|
[
1) What I have heard so far, is that there indeed is a great variation in how the testing numbers change in each doped athlete. One of the intentions with the biological passport, is to draw the basis line for each athlete, and then monitor any variations from this individual basis line. This approach should be far better, than operating with threshold values in the doping tests.
Look my later post above. I got the figure 30 % for false negative epo tests. That`s a lot but athletes cannot be sure how epo behaves in their body on its way to urine. That means that results may differ with same usage with same individual.
2) Regarding GH, there has been published some studies with the conclusion, that a rider could only bennefit from GH+EPO, and not by only using GH alone. This was claimed to have something to do with the fact, that the athlete with GH also gain some kilos in weight, and the bennefits from greater muscles is difficult to exploit efficiently, in case you dont also have some kind of elevated hematocrite, bringing them a sufficient level of oxygen. However, I dont know if this "rule" also applies for sprinters, or perhaps only for mountain riders.
A test for Growth Hormones is expected to get launched during the next few months! www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=3872
The famous Lausane laboratorium, has announced that a blood test for GH is soon to be introduced. The lab. currently carry out the last checks of a legal nature, and has promised to have an efficient test readdy before OL in Peijing. The first test for growth hormone was introduced at the time of the Olympic Games of Athens in 2004, but since the test was not efficient, no sample was ever tested positive.
This GH test is almost a joke. It was trumpeted before Sydney olympics and then before Athens. Let´s hope that this time it is not only a deterrent. But I´ve seen this story too many times.
4) The source (www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=348#c1086) about orientation runners who died from EPO use, might be wrong. As far as I know its impossible to proof, why the many athletes died. Its however remarkable, that the death count suddenly rised in those years from 1989-1992. In my opinion, the athletes who died, most likely already had a bad heart in first place, and they probably died from the extra amount of stress caused by an excessive use of EPO. While riders with a completely healthy hearth, probably never had any problems with the EPO consumption. Later introduced dillution techniques, and the hematocrite level of 50, removed the danger of EPO consumption.
Still does not make sense to me. Epo is expensive. In orienteering there is not a big money. How could Swedish orienteers afford to pioneer with epo?
Heppu |
|
|
|
KD teammate
Hors Categorie
Denmark
5683 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2008 : 05:34:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Heppu
quote:
Originally posted by KD teammate
1) What I have heard so far, is that there indeed is a great variation in how the testing numbers change in each doped athlete. One of the intentions with the biological passport, is to draw the basis line for each athlete, and then monitor any variations from this individual basis line. This approach should be far better, than operating with threshold values in the doping tests.
Look my later post above. I got the figure 30 % for false negative epo tests. That`s a lot but athletes cannot be sure how epo behaves in their body on its way to urine. That means that results may differ with same usage with same individual.
I share your concern about that. The situation becomes even more difficult, when you consider that different brands of doping products are behaving differently in the body. Some brands are difficult to trace, while others are easier. In top of that, athletes also have the possibility to often add masking products. The concept about the new biological passports, is however not to test for traces of the specific doping product, but rather to start testing how biological markers in the blood variates during the year. Doping scientist have apparently been able to proof, that athletes without concumption of drugs, have smaller variations in their profiles compared to those who are using the "undetected" drugs.
Biological passports is this year introduced in Cycling, and its a brand new way of doing the antidoping controls. Wether or not its efficient enough, only time will tell. Apparently there is still a lot of challanges, to deminish uncertainty in the tested values, and create reliable assesment and results. But I have to say, that when they now start to test indirectly for doping substances, by looking at bio markers, this is a wise move. WADA has for a long time supported research for "biological passports", and I think one of the reasons for this, is your concern posted above, that most doping products have become too difficult to trace by the conventional doping tests.
quote:
Originally posted by Heppu
Still does not make sense to me. Epo is expensive. In orienteering there is not a big money. How could Swedish orienteers afford to pioneer with epo?
Since I dont know anything about the Swedish orienteers, I am not able to comment any further about their possible doping use, without adding some personal speculation. The source I provided above has probably speculated about the Swedish link. As I wrote at page 1, a Swedish medical company wanted to carry out EPO tests on athletes in 1989. They approached the Danish Cycling Union (DCU), who told them they wouldnt accept this expiriment, and the company was then apparently making the expiriment on Swedish cross country athletes. Wether or not Swedish orienteers also became a part of this expiriment, probably remains an open and unanswered question. But if they did, it would answer your question about how they could afford it. |
|
|
|
Heppu
Stagiaire
Finland
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2008 : 20:26:14
|
I share your concern about that. The situation becomes even more difficult, when you consider that different brands of doping products are behaving differently in the body. Some brands are difficult to trace, while others are easier. In top of that, athletes also have the possibility to often add masking products. The concept about the new biological passports, is however not to test for traces of the specific doping product, but rather to start testing how biological markers in the blood variates during the year. Doping scientist have apparently been able to proof, that athletes without concumption of drugs, have smaller variations in their profiles compared to those who are using the "undetected" drugs.
Biological passports is this year introduced in Cycling, and its a brand new way of doing the antidoping controls. Wether or not its efficient enough, only time will tell. Apparently there is still a lot of challanges, to deminish uncertainty in the tested values, and create reliable assesment and results. But I have to say, that when they now start to test indirectly for doping substances, by looking at bio markers, this is a wise move. WADA has for a long time supported research for "biological passports", and I think one of the reasons for this, is your concern posted above, that most doping products have become too difficult to trace by the conventional doping tests.
I totally agree with you on that above. On the tv broadcast I referred earlier Pat Mc Quaid said that he expects this biological passport will be in place 2009. But there certainly are juridicial concerns around this passport control. If we assume that scientists say with 90 - 95 percent certainty that athlete´s blood profile shows doping, it is a tall order to ban all with suspect profiles - or even ban anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Heppu
Still does not make sense to me. Epo is expensive. In orienteering there is not a big money. How could Swedish orienteers afford to pioneer with epo?
Since I dont know anything about the Swedish orienteers, I am not able to comment any further about their possible doping use, without adding some personal speculation. The source I provided above has probably speculated about the Swedish link. As I wrote at page 1, a Swedish medical company wanted to carry out EPO tests on athletes in 1989. They approached the Danish Cycling Union (DCU), who told them they wouldnt accept this expiriment, and the company was then apparently making the expiriment on Swedish cross country athletes. Wether or not Swedish orienteers also became a part of this expiriment, probably remains an open and unanswered question. But if they did, it would answer your question about how they could afford it.
This is interesting as in cross country skiing Swedes have clean reputation. But you are right if there was this skiing connection, it might have been possible to spill over to orienteering. And in the early years of epo we know that there were death cases in cycling anyway. Do you know the name of that drug company and/or any Swedish skiers names.
[/quote]
Heppu |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Doping affairs in Cycling since 1980
